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Author Topic: BBC Shropshire Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire  (Read 12441 times)

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BBC Shropshire Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« on: September 21, 2012, 11:03:17 PM »
As a result of Delivering Quality First, Jim Hawkins will be losing his Saturday show on BBC Shropshire, but hes not whining about it.  Read on

So the other night having a look through the Twittersphere and seeing much back slapping amongst radio types at the announcement that former BBC executive Matthew Bannister, had been awarded a contract by the BBC, to produce the new national BBC Local Radio evening programme, I felt somehow that something and maybe, some people were being forgotten.

Having read thousands of comments on our petition against cuts to local radio service, visited goodness knows how many Facebook pages and websites, read numerous submissions to the BBC Trust, not once have I seen a single listener or organisation say A national evening programme is exactly what we want.

So I tweeted my own cheeky congratulations to Matthew Bannister.

For some reason BBC Shropshire mid-morning host Jim Hawkins seemed to take exception to the sentiment I was expressing.  You can read our exchange below for yourself.  But I have to say it left me confused, that a popular presenter was of the opinion that a slickly produced national programme would be better than what we have at the moment, and what is comments say of his own view of local productions leaves me wondering.

Take the Roger Day programme for example.  Roger, an old-school broadcasting legend, brings us music, the stuff not on the playlist!  Interviews with artists who are usually passing through the region and the odd hour of specialist stuff that you will be hard pushed to find elsewhere on the schedule.  For all their box ticking at the BBC Trust, Rogers programme is possibly one of the very few in the whole Surrey and Sussex schedule which scores a bullseye with the target demographic.  Roger is wonderful with his listeners, interacting with them on his Facebook pages as well as on the air; hes more than just a presenter to them, as many good radio people are.  Hes made it clear hes upset by the forthcoming changes, or whining, as Jim would call it.

Possibly the worse thing about January's changes will be that are certain to be listeners who will tune in as usual to hear Roger in the South - or any of the numerous shows round the country and will find them gone.

But not to worry, according to Jim, the quality production of something completely irrelevant to them should more than make up for it.


News Mutt

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #1 on: September 22, 2012, 12:19:12 PM »
Perhaps Jim has a point. Or is grown up enough to have his own opinion. Something which seems to be rarely encouraged on this Forum unless it happens to be in complete agreement with those running it.

Just saying...

Radioman

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #2 on: September 22, 2012, 05:40:46 PM »
Fair play to Jim Hawkins for being pragmatic enough to accept the change. I would venture it is more grown up than the OP's juvenile tweet, which he wouldn't even be able to substantiate. We should at least give the programme a chance before rushing to judgement. Fact is that the contract has been awarded and there is no going back now.

darcysarto

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #3 on: September 22, 2012, 05:46:59 PM »
Perhaps Jim has a point. Or is grown up enough to have his own opinion. Something which seems to be rarely encouraged on this Forum unless it happens to be in complete agreement with those running it.

Just saying...

Sorry, I thought you'd flounced out.

Again.

darcysarto

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2012, 05:57:01 PM »
Fair play to Jim Hawkins for being pragmatic enough to accept the change. I would venture it is more grown up than the OP's juvenile tweet, which he wouldn't even be able to substantiate. We should at least give the programme a chance before rushing to judgement. Fact is that the contract has been awarded and there is no going back now.

Juvenile, I'd possibly say more on the side of confrontational.

I'd say this was reasonably substantial.
Quote
Having read thousands of comments on our petition against cuts to local radio service, visited goodness knows how many Facebook pages and websites, read numerous submissions to the BBC Trust, not once have I seen a single listener or organisation say A national evening programme is exactly what we want.

I've no doubt the programme will be very well produced, it's not about judging the quality of the programme, it's to do with the principle.

Radioman

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2012, 08:09:52 PM »
Juvenile, I'd possibly say more on the side of confrontational.

I'd say this was reasonably substantial.
I've no doubt the programme will be very well produced, it's not about judging the quality of the programme, it's to do with the principle.

Confrontational or not, he can't possibly say that everybody agrees with him - particularly when one of the presenters affected offers an alternative view. It is ridiculous to suggest that people campaigning on behalf of local radio would offer this up as a suggestion - the whole premise of their campaign is to prevent any changes to BBC local radio output! So it is hardly a surprise that anyone has offered this up as an idea. Doh!

And principles are all very well when you've got an unlimited budget, but, like it or not, BBC LR has to make a contribution to the savings. By the way, do you also object to some stations taking Five Live overnight? Or the BBC World Service? Because that's not local either - but it's been going on for decades.

Tiger

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2012, 08:37:53 PM »
To be honest, I find Jim Hawkins' comments quite depressing.

I suppose because I sort of expect local radio presenters to have some passion about what they do and why they do it. And that means LOCAL and you have to wonder at such enthusiasm for a national program on a local network. Who is going to fight for proper local coverage if the presenters have such an attitude.

AND again, this presenter can only really talk about his own perspective , and like many others ,seems unable to recognise the audience that he represents as the important receiver, perhaps he could have the respect to actually ask them? He clearly has the means to do that with a mid morning show and I would hope that he also has the courage.

Tiger

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #7 on: September 22, 2012, 08:57:44 PM »
Perhaps Jim has a point. Or is grown up enough to have his own opinion. Something which seems to be rarely encouraged on this Forum unless it happens to be in complete agreement with those running it.

Just saying...

NEWSMUTT if what you say is true, your membership would have been banned from day one and your posts would have been removed.

The fact that you are given a right of reply and a voice, even a troublemaking one, proves otherwise.

You have denied others that right..and I do not want to start a thread about pot and kettles.

So either post without malice or do your business elsewhere.

Tiger

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #8 on: September 22, 2012, 09:13:24 PM »
Confrontational or not, he can't possibly say that everybody agrees with him - particularly when one of the presenters affected offers an alternative view. It is ridiculous to suggest that people campaigning on behalf of local radio would offer this up as a suggestion - the whole premise of their campaign is to prevent any changes to BBC local radio output! So it is hardly a surprise that anyone has offered this up as an idea. Doh!

And principles are all very well when you've got an unlimited budget, but, like it or not, BBC LR has to make a contribution to the savings. By the way, do you also object to some stations taking Five Live overnight? Or the BBC World Service? Because that's not local either - but it's been going on for decades.


You see, I have to take issue with this misconception that BBC local radio MUST suffer cuts to its output, because of its budget.


That is not correct. BBC local radio HAS already suffered severe cutting before the fee freeze. Its local reporters have been cut to the bone. John Myers clearly stated that the cuts could be found from management savings, that would be layers that do not need to exist and he was not even allowed to look at the regional layers?


There is no need for a cut to output, if anything ,it is purely ideological.


The fact remains that BBC LR provides the ONLY truly interactive service on its network and to introduce a national program deliberately will damage its nature and importance and will open it up to further dilution.


 I hope that Jim Hawkins will ask a farmer in his community whether that farmer is happy to only contribute and hear contributions about his community in peak times..

Radioman

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #9 on: September 22, 2012, 09:27:14 PM »
To be honest, I find Jim Hawkins' comments quite depressing.

I suppose because I sort of expect local radio presenters to have some passion about what they do and why they do it. And that means LOCAL and you have to wonder at such enthusiasm for a national program on a local network. Who is going to fight for proper local coverage if the presenters have such an attitude.

AND again, this presenter can only really talk about his own perspective , and like many others ,seems unable to recognise the audience that he represents as the important receiver, perhaps he could have the respect to actually ask them? He clearly has the means to do that with a mid morning show and I would hope that he also has the courage.

I find it quite refreshing that he is willing to see the bigger picture rather than putting blinkers on and making the assumption that because it isn't produced locally, it isn't going to serve a local audience.

And as for asking the audience what they want, that's fine - but focus on asking them about what content they want rather than where it's broadcast from.

The vocal element of the audience will most likely vote for what they already get, whereas the job of a decent programmer is to test the boundaries and challenge them with something a bit different.

Radioman

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #10 on: September 22, 2012, 09:34:39 PM »
John Myers clearly stated that the cuts could be found from management savings, that would be layers that do not need to exist and he was not even allowed to look at the regional layers?

So this will be the same John Myers who recommended:

Where savings are necessary, I have suggested that they are found in the evening offpeak periods in order to keep stations local in daytime and retain sufficient budgets to protect journalism and sport output. 

Which is, er, exactly what is being proposed.

It brings me back to my point that people on this forum think the cuts can be magically implemented without impacting on output. They can't. But of course you don't have to worry about that, as you're not in control of the purse strings so you can suggest what you want without worrying about the consequences.

The BBC should have set up a budget calculator so people could actually see what impact the suggestions they make have on the cost
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 09:48:26 PM by Radioman »

Tiger

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #11 on: September 22, 2012, 09:56:07 PM »
I find it quite refreshing that he is willing to see the bigger picture rather than putting blinkers on and making the assumption that because it isn't produced locally, it isn't going to serve a local audience.

And as for asking the audience what they want, that's fine - but focus on asking them about what content they want rather than where it's broadcast from.

The vocal element of the audience will most likely vote for what they already get, whereas the job of a decent programmer is to test the boundaries and challenge them with something a bit different.


Surely, the point is that Shropshire listeners will want something very different from Merseyside or Surrey listeners in terms of content. That would be why Frank Gillard came up with the idea of BBC LR.

If listeners want a national program they have many to chose from.

This is a backward step. When most commercial stations are so blandly branded and up to their necks in networking and the local press is in serious decline the BBC has a public responsibility to protect a truly local service, otherwise local democracy is at risk.


Yes, I am aware of Mr Myers suggestion about an evening show, I disagreed with him at the time as did many others and it was seen as a nod to a bit of a top slice to the commercials(I understand that) BUT I think he is probably regretting that now!


His comments on the need to cut management remain as important, and indeed he is by no means alone on that. David Holdsworth promised that there would be transparency and it would be tackled..we are still waiting?


If you are talking about a calculator, I would imagine the majority of fee payers would be completely horrified at the huge cost of Salford and the equally huge cost of the new broadcasting house, if the construction of those Empires meant the destruction of  the opportunity to have their say or hear what is happening in their communities.
« Last Edit: September 22, 2012, 10:02:42 PM by Tiger »

darcysarto

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #12 on: September 22, 2012, 10:08:57 PM »
So this will be the same John Myers who recommended:

Where savings are necessary, I have suggested that they are found in the evening offpeak periods in order to keep stations local in daytime and retain sufficient budgets to protect journalism and sport output. 

Which is, er, exactly what is being proposed.

It brings me back to my point that people on this forum think the cuts can be magically implemented without impacting on output. It can't.

Well I wouldn't wish to put words into John's mouth, not without a few hundred metres head-start anyway, but knowing his admiration and love of local radio, I suspect the key words in that sentence are 'Where savings are necessary'.

It's this notion that there is no alternative to salami slicing?  That the paltry sums being saved in   local radio couldn't be found elsewhere.  I suspect Johns book will be an interesting read when it comes out shortly.

And I wouldn't think anyone would say that every programme on every station is perfect, there is nothing wrong with wishing to improve the quality of output, in line with what listeners want. 

And yes I think listeners to BBC London will have a problem with 5Live being played out overnight.

Of course nothing I say will change your opine if you can't get past the idea that savings are necessary in local radio.

Rita

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #13 on: September 22, 2012, 11:52:47 PM »
It's not a case of giving  the All England radio show a chance.  Of course you have to give it a chance - but if we're talking about LOCAL radio - why would I, in the north-west be interested in local news from another part of the country, unless it is something very serious of course.
I'm sick of saying this, and perhaps I am getting a little monotonous mentioning this, but irrespective of whether the BBC is to make savings or not, listeners in every region like to hear familiar voices who know all about their local area, because they live in it and are concerned about it.  If listeners live alone and can't get out of their front door for a variety of reasons, a familiar voice makes a lot of difference to them - they come to regard the local presenters as a "friend" and they can interact with them.  There are some excellent presenters on local radio, who play a variety of music, as well as the ones who give out the news etc.  The cuts could and should have been made elsewhere.  The trouble is, the "men/women" in suits in top positions at the BBC, who are earning vast amounts of money, which we are paying for - we have no choice, are totally out of touch with the "man/woman" in the street and have no idea what the listeners want - or care for that matter.  Why should be listeners be deprived of their favourite presenters, like Roger Day and all the rest, and be forced to listen to an "All England show" which I believe they don't want? Well they don't have to listen - if people showed their disapproval by switching off, perhaps it would make a difference.  Another part of me says that this new show should be given a chance.  If memory serves me correctly, the last time this was tried, it didn't work and they had to rethink the issue.

delta79

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Re: Dont Save The Jim Hawkins Saturday Show On BBC Shropshire
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2012, 12:06:36 AM »
I see Jim as a man that takes a level informed look at what happening and makes his own mind up base on what he know and believes in.

He has said on many occasions that Quality radio is what he want to make. and his weekday show is a good quality show. 

I look at his view and wonder, if he has done what he can off the air to keep his Saturday show. and it come to the outcome of ending in Jan. Deciding that as long as the listeners get a good quality show that they enjoy, then that is in the best interest of the listeners.

But we wont know that until the show is tested on the listening public.

I hope that Jim Hawkins will ask a farmer in his community whether that farmer is happy to only contribute and hear contributions about his community in peak times..

He did, along with a everyone else that interacts with his weekday show. I was live on air giving my view.

My view was, there is good quality show in the evening on local radio. maybe if these show went regional they could cut cost and keep good quality local content. As this is partly done by Shropshire, Stoke and Hereford and Worcester with the 3 stations coming together to transmit quality shows like The trunk of funk.

The views in this posting are mine.


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